Full Transcription
Roy Samuelson:
I’m kind of star struck too because as a narrator, what I do is I go into a studio and I’m given a script and the engineer says, “Rolling”, and I go through a whole episode of TV or a whole movie or whatever. And they’ll give me some direction and then that’s it.
Roy Samuelson:
That wheelchair ramp is a part of the building. Even if someone might not use it, and I like to think about audio description in a similar way but it is a part of the production. Even though it might be invisible to you.
Jeff Thompson:
Or like in dot to dots. It’s not about the dots, but when you’re finished you have a picture and you don’t see that anymore. So for us, you connect the dots and you are the one that is actually helping us put the audio canvas to our mind. It just works. We need that bridge.
Serina Gilbert:
You’re getting to the point where you’re starting to work with people who are the decision maker and things like that and when they’re going through their production and deciding what the priorities are, they’re going to speak up and be like, “Oh yeah, we need to get the audio description track as well.”
Roy Samuelson:
I am so excited. Yes. Spider-Man: Far From Home. It’s July 4th weekend release on July 2nd and I was on the audio description for the Spider-Man: Homecoming maybe a few years ago, and I’m just thrilled that the franchise is continuing with this one and it’s a pretty big movie.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh yeah. Spidey. Everyone loves Spidey.
Serina Gilbert:
I love Spider-Man. I love Spider-Man. I love Spider-Man.
Jeff Thompson:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson and in the studio with me is Serina Gilbert. How are you doing Serina?
Serina Gilbert:
I am doing great. There’s super awesome weather in Colorado, finally, after two feet of snow on the first day of summer. But it is now 80 degrees and I am super happy.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh wow. Wow. Well I want to talk to you about audio description today because I know you are a huge audio description enthusiast.
Serina Gilbert:
I am a self-described audio descriptions snob.
Jeff Thompson:
Really? I heard you won’t watch a show unless it has it.
Serina Gilbert:
It’s very accurate. Like, unless … my husband and I do watch some shows together on like HBO or Starz and those are obviously not described in the United States and he has the patience to help make sure that I understand what’s going on. But if it’s a show I’m watching by myself and I start it and there’s no descriptions, I don’t even invest anymore time in it.
Jeff Thompson:
Really? Well that’s great because today in the studio with us is Roy Samuelson. He’s been on a couple other times, but this time he gets to meet Serina and Roy, Serina’s one of your biggest fans. How are you doing, Roy?
Roy Samuelson:
I’m doing great. Thanks for asking. I’m living the row, row, row your boat gently down the stream nursery rhyme right now. I’m just, I’m gently going down the stream with all the ups and downs of this amazing business right now. But I’m loving it.
Jeff Thompson:
Serina, you’re speechless. You finally get to get Roy in person or virtually in person. I could sit back and say, “Roy smiles. Serina sits back going wow. Awkward pause.”
Roy Samuelson:
Well I got to say Serina, just by you saying you are an audio descriptions snob, I’m kind of star struck too because as a narrator what I do is I go into a studio and I’m given a script and the engineer says rolling, and I go through a whole episode of TV or a whole movie or whatever and they’ll give me some direction, and then that’s it.
Roy Samuelson:
A young man unlocks an apartment door. Vincent and Jules step inside. A second young man eats at a table.
Speaker 4:
Hey kids. How you boys doing? Hey, keep chilling.
Roy Samuelson:
Jules motions for a young man on a couch to prop up his foot. He gives the okay sign, then turns to the man at the table.
Speaker 4:
You know who we are? We are associates of your business partner, Marsellus Wallace. You do remember your business partner don’t you?
Roy Samuelson:
The man glances up uneasily.
Speaker 4:
Now, let me take a wild guess here.
Roy Samuelson:
Jules looks at the man on the couch, then points to the one at the table.
Roy Samuelson:
So my experience is so limited to just the people I work with, to hear that you appreciate it and that it means that much to you to actually call yourself a snob about it, means that it’s serving you in a way that kind of enhances the story.
Serina Gilbert:
Well, it kind of evens the playing field for us. I work full-time and we obviously eat lunch in our breakroom and probably a good 60% of the conversations revolve around, oh my gosh did you see this on Netflix? Or did you see this show? And I can intelligently contribute to the conversations and feel a part of that community because of the quality audio descriptions that are on there now.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow. Very cool.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. Really being inclusive, being able to comprehend everything. I love it especially on some devices when it just automatically comes on and you go, “Oh, wow. It’s audio described.” And you kind of nestle in just a little bit better, you know? Okay starts talking and there it goes.
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, cool.
Jeff Thompson:
It’s nice hearing your voice on some of the shows. Why don’t you tell the listeners some of the shows that you’ve been on?
Roy Samuelson:
Sure. I’ve been on a few series. NCIS. I just finished, if you could believe it or not, I just finished wrapping the entire series of Criminal Minds. That’s not coming out I think for a few months, but it’s kind of neat that the production knew that they were going to be finishing up. So I guess they took the early part of the summer to do production and post-production and they got it all knocked out so that the crew and the cast members and everybody else can find some other projects to jump on for this new season. So it’s been kind of neat to do Criminal Minds kind of back-to-back.
Jeff Thompson:
So the studio’s totally empty. And then comes the audio describers.
Roy Samuelson:
Kind of. Yeah.
Jeff Thompson:
They left one light on.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah, yeah. And it’s funny that you say that. One of my favorite analogies when I describe audio description, describe audio description, to people that are unfamiliar with it is comparing the production of the TV show or the movie to the production is like a building. And I’m able to walk up steps of a building but because I walk up the steps of the building, that doesn’t mean that … let’s say a wheelchair ramp doesn’t exist or I might not even know where it is, but it’s still there. The ramp is part of the building. It’s a part of the building and audio description, I think, there’s some comparisons there that audio description seems like it’s this other thing and it is. It’s an audio track that lives on top of the production. The production audio. I like to think of it in the ramp example. That wheelchair ramp is a part of the building. It’s even if someone might not use it. And I like to think about audio description in a similar way. But it is a part of the production. Even though it might be invisible to you.
Serina Gilbert:
I like the analogy that you use with the ramp for example, because people think, “Oh the ramp.” Most people that … I was telling you that my husband actually uses the audio description tracks and he’s fully sighted. He’ll turn on a show and sometimes it’s when he’s cooking or doing some other things, going through the mail or whatever, but other times he’s staring right at the TV and he still has the audio track and it obviously enhances it just that much more.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow. Very cool. Yeah those are great examples with the cooking. I never thought or heard about that before. I’ve been using the commuters, especially in Los Angeles, everybody gets stuck on the freeway. It’s like this is kind of like a built-in podcast with all the production audio plus sharing what’s happening on screen. And I love the cooking analogy, makes me start thinking about there’s a lot of sighted people that are staring at their phones or their computer screens all day and you get home, you might want to rest your eyes and still enjoy some entertainment. That’s turning on. It’s kind of bringing back the radio play base.
Serina Gilbert:
Well, yeah. I oftentimes, now that I have AirPods, totally unsponsored ad.
Roy Samuelson:
[inaudible]
Serina Gilbert:
But now that I have the AirPods, I’ll often times when I’m cleaning my house, because with Netflix it lets you lock the screen and still play the track essentially. So I’ll just have one AirPod in and I’m walking around cleaning the house while watching a Netflix show essentially. Kind of a multitasking.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow. Very cool.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, like I listen to Bosch and I’m waiting right now. This season I’m waiting to record them up because I’m flying to Vegas and I’ll be able to knock out a couple shows, three, four, five shows just while I’m just sitting there anyways. And it’s going to be audio described by someone that I know.
Roy Samuelson:
Who’s that?
Serina Gilbert:
Who could that be?
Jeff Thompson:
That’s really cool. It’s really cool when you’re sitting there, watching a show when you’ve actually talked to someone that’s actually doing it. It feels like you’re connected and it’s something that we appreciate, and you do it. I love your passion that you have it to, Roy, equally as she is. What was the word you used Serina? A snob. That’s it.
Serina Gilbert:
The way you say it sounds offensive though. I don’t think you mean it in a nice way.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, that’s why on you’re on the show, so you can sweeten things up just a little bit.
Serina Gilbert:
I mean, you’re talking about my soapbox and my height and then now you’re calling me a snob.
Jeff Thompson:
Not really a snob but you like it so much that you’ll fight for it.
Serina Gilbert:
Of course.
Roy Samuelson:
There we go.
Serina Gilbert:
It’s super important.
Jeff Thompson:
I dug myself out of a hole there.
Roy Samuelson:
Well, it’s funny. I’m a sighted person. I’ve been doing audio description. It’s only been maybe the last year or so that I started engaging with the community and learning about what people who do use audio description like and don’t like and one of the things that I’m continuing to learn that I’m so excited about learning is that I am specifically focused on audio description for TVs and movies. That’s the main gist. That’s kind of where my wheelhouse of experiences as a narrator. But here’s the funny thing. By learning about this microcosm of disability, this tiny little element of the blind and low-vision community in this very specific tiny element of entertainment, it’s allowed me to understand more about inclusion and accessibility in a way that I don’t think I could have done just by reading an article or learning something by an offhanded remark that somebody said.
Roy Samuelson:
What’s happening is by being so focused specifically about audio description, it’s helping me. I’m not anywhere near where I need to be. I’m not woke as I need to be but it’s opening me up to learn more about inclusion and advocacy and the people that I’m following specifically on social media that help me, like oh I didn’t understand that before. Now I get it. And that now I get it, that awareness is so important to me and it’s helped me understand so much more about the world that we live in and help me better clearly advocate when I can advocate. So this is … Yeah, I’m very specific about audio description in TV and movies. But that’s kind of opened up this other thing too and it’s … that excites me.
Roy Samuelson:
Running to the other hut, Alan turns the gears on the Enigma machine.
Speaker 5:
I need a new message. The latest intercept.
Roy Samuelson:
Peter runs over a piece of paper and gives it to Joe. Ellen rearranges the machine’s wires. John grabs a notebook and pencil.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. It’s really interesting. We did a blog a couple weeks ago and to hear that the person took writing in college, was creative writing, just by chance ended up doing a course and doing some audio description and now they do it all the time. It just seemed to be a great fit and they too are excited to be doing what they do.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow.
Serina Gilbert:
The other day, and I think I might have shared it on the Blind Abilities Facebook page. There’s a Subaru commercial that has an audio description. Probably because the individual that’s in the commercial does have low-vision impairment. But it got me thinking, there’s so many advertisements out there that I don’t know why this was funny, or even what they’re advertising because they’re so visual and they’re missing out on our buying power because I think they underestimate how much ability we have to kind of … there’s lots of different gizmos and gadgets that we would love to use and have access too as well. And advertisers don’t even think about that. I think the Subaru thing was just because it was an individual that had a vision impairment and I would imagine he happened to advocate for that maybe or something like that. It was kind of cool.
Jeff Thompson:
No, that’s George Wurtzel. I do woodworking with him out at Enchanted Hills Camp in California. Part of the Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired of San Francisco. And he actually has been blind, geez, I would say most of his life. Since a kid. And he does woodworking and they were looking for a crotchety old blind guy between a certain age.
Serina Gilbert:
How did they not pick you then, Jeff?
Jeff Thompson:
I don’t know. They found George. And he did not even have to change his wardrobe, because he always wore these farmer jeans and his beard comes down to his sternum and he just has a straw hat and he just … And he uses the same stuff during the commercial.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow.
Jeff Thompson:
And they’re still airing that commercial today. And now George is in Greensboro, Tennessee. I’ll have to edit that if I got it wrong.
Serina Gilbert:
We’ll be able to tell. It’ll be like a totally different like cadence. Nashville, Tennessee.
Jeff Thompson:
I’ll come on with my morning voice. That’s in Tennessee.
Serina Gilbert:
We call it your Blind Ability voice.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, you have to have different voices, and Roy, you’ve gone through that sometimes. I’ve heard your voice on a couple things and it sounds deep. You got a deep voice and then you have another voice too that I’ve kind of, “Oh, that is Roy.”
Roy Samuelson:
Ah yeah. Well, I’m glad you brought that up. I’m curious if … here’s what my intention is. I’m curious if it comes through. The different genres that I work on, I imagine what I do is similar to foley. So the noises of footsteps or claps or the twist of a leather jacket. That these things are … they’re foley. So it’s a special, kind of special sound effect. And if they’re not there, it’s noticed. It’s like, oh where’d that go from? Or, if it’s there too much, it’s way too much. So, when I think about audio description in that example, I’m doing my best to stay within the world so that you as a consumer or as an audience member can stay in the story. And I don’t want to stand out. If you’re thinking about, “Wow, that was a great narration that Roy did”, I don’t think I served the project. I don’t think I’m doing the story justice.
Roy Samuelson:
I need to be a part of the story, and not stand out so that I’m giving you the details and if I’m saying something like, “She dies in his arms”, with a big smile on my face, it’s probably going to take you out. Or-
Serina Gilbert:
Well it depends on the movie.
Roy Samuelson:
Sure. Exactly. That’s true. That’s true. Or, she runs up and hugs her dog that she hasn’t seen for two days, and that’s the end of the … So I do have to match the tone. I have to-
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, spoiler. Spoiler.
Roy Samuelson:
I didn’t say which show it was! But the idea is, the genre, the story, I need to be a part of the emotional journey in a way that doesn’t stand out and it’s so important to me. I’m now exploring and playing with pauses in a way. So I get a block of text. I’m given to it right away so I’m kind of prereading with like three or four seconds so I don’t nail it, but what I’m trying to do is make sure that each sentence stands for what it needs to be a part of the story. So I might throw two or three sentences together really fast and then give just a moment to breath so that whatever I said can be processed, or maybe there’s an audio thing that kind of enhances that. So I’m really doing my best to do a dance with the production so that I’m not getting in the way.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, it’s kind of like paint by numbers. When the picture’s finally seen, you don’t see the numbers anymore, but the picture’s enhanced because the numbers were there.
Roy Samuelson:
Oh yeah.
Jeff Thompson:
Or like in dot to dots, it’s not about the dots, but when you’re finished you have a picture and you don’t see that anymore. So for us, you connect the dots and you are the one that is actually helping us put the audio canvas to our mind. It just works. We need that. We need that bridge.
Roy Samuelson:
That is a beautiful analogy. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. It is little … it’s just dropping a dot here. I love that!
Serina Gilbert:
Jeff got all philosophical on us over here.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah. Well I started off with this whole Row, Row, Row Your Boat thing and you’re like, what is … I can explain that at another time. That’ll be a separate podcast.
Serina Gilbert:
Well I am curious and I think you’ve described this to us a little bit but like when you get a script for the description for like Criminal Minds for example, do you actually get to watch the episode? Because I know … sometimes you do the writing, sometimes you do the narrating. Is that correct?
Roy Samuelson:
I haven’t done any audio description writing. So I’m not a describer. I’m just a narrator and I have so much respect for the people that write this stuff. But anyway, yeah, so I’m just a narrator. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Serina Gilbert:
So, when you do the narrations, is it all out of context for you? Or are you in a studio with the show running kind of along with you?
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, got you. Great question. So there is this show that runs along on a monitor, and I have a script also. So I am a sighted narrator so I am looking up at the script, and I also have a headset and I’m listening. I’m sorry, I’m looking up at the production. I’m watching the show and I’m also listening to the show and I’ve got the script in front of me. So, it’s given to me ice cold, so I’m given the script and then I start rolling. So I have no idea what’s happening. I’m literally along the ride, unless I pick up a line or unless they need me to come back and change something for whatever reason. It could be a million reasons. For the 99% of the time, it’s ice cold and I’m on the ride with you.
Serina Gilbert:
That’s really cool because I bet there’s time where you’re like, “Oh my gosh. I can’t believe that just happened.” But you have to stay in your zone.
Roy Samuelson:
That’s happened a lot. There’s been a few scenes in movies as well as TV shows. And even TV shows I’m familiar with where something happens unexpected and I’m really moved emotionally. And there’s been one time, I’m not sure if it’s good or bad. Please, no judgment. But there was one time a while ago where there was a scene that just for whatever reason it tapped into my heart and I couldn’t speak. I was moved so much. I was nearly in tears. And there’s an engineer waiting for me, and they’re paying for studio time and there’s a director. So it’s like I can’t take that moment. In a sense, it is unprofessional for me to take even a minute of their time. Time is so valuable.
Jeff Thompson:
That wasn’t Pee-wee’s Big Adventure was it?
Roy Samuelson:
That’s … That’s … Oh, I don’t think I could do that. It was so … Pee-wee’s Big Adventure. That’s so good. No. It wasn’t.
Jeff Thompson:
I’m kidding.
Roy Samuelson:
I love it.
Serina Gilbert:
I am curious what show it was now, though. So we can all go watch it.
Roy Samuelson:
I’m pretty sure NCIS has a way of pulling the heart strings and there’s been more than a handful of times where they got me at the end. And I’m not prepared for it, but I do my best to kind of [inaudible]. And I’m making it sound like I spend five minutes on the couch fainting. It’s not that. It’s like I just need half a minute just to kind of get it out and then I’ll just pick up where I was. I guess that in a sense kind of helps me be along the journey and I can experience it with you in a sense.
Jeff Thompson:
I got a question for you. The voice is something that’s kind of your signature and I know like if I’m recording at 9:00 in the morning, I got what I call my morning voice or some people call it their telephone voice. Like when the phone rings, they pick it up and they go, “Hello?” They just switch to a different business voice or something. You probably get called in at different times. I don’t know. So, explain, do you go through that a little bit?
Roy Samuelson:
Great question. Yes. And I’ve really practiced a lot to be able to match my own voice. I’ve done more than a few audiobooks and produced and narrated them, so I’m doing the mix and the edit and you know what it’s like. You do a podcast. There’s a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes. And when I need to pick up something and I’m going through my own quality control and I see I miss something. There were times where I had to say 15 instead of 13. Whatever, I’m making up a number. And I pick up the phrase he picked up the $13 instead of $15 and it sounded different.
Roy Samuelson:
It’s like, well now I got to record the whole paragraph or the whole chapter. And so for my own sanity and preservation, I needed to find a way to be able to get into that zone that I was in. And so I’ve practiced really hard for that. So I bring a different voice for NCIS than I bring for Criminal Minds. And so, those are my go-to’s. I’ve been doing them for a few years. So it’s easier for me to slip into that.
Roy Samuelson:
But with some of the movies, there is a tone I need to maintain and I need to be able to remember what that tone was so in case they do have a change, whether it’s the script or even the production, I need to be able to go in and as seamlessly as possible so it doesn’t pop out and stand out. Morning voice. Yeah.
Speaker 6:
Alan?
Roy Samuelson:
In the research hut, Joan watches Alan dump decrypted messages onto the desk. The others arrive.
Speaker 7:
What if Christopher doesn’t have to search through all of the settings? What if he only has to search through ones that produce words we already know would be in the message?
Speaker 8:
Repeated words. Predictable words.
Speaker 7:
Exactly.
Roy Samuelson:
They all search through the files.
Jeff Thompson:
We were talking before this; we had a little bit of technical difficult but we were talking-
Serina Gilbert:
Technical difficult, Jeff? Really? I love how you call your tardiness technical difficult.
Jeff Thompson:
My cat walked across my mixer and finally I found this button that I never had pressed and I was like unpress it now I’m alive, so I was a little late to the show here. And I’ll admit it folks, I got a cat. I know.
Roy Samuelson:
There is something new that’s happened in my audio description world that’s different from narration.
Speaker 9:
I’m not sure I understand.
Jeff Thompson:
Hey, you got a talking device.
Serina Gilbert:
Was that Siri being summoned?
Roy Samuelson:
It was explicably because I’m having a call with you on a Siri device. So this is creepy.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, now you’ve got my interest. Something other than narration.
Roy Samuelson:
My experience has been in the narration side which like I said, I go in, I record a script and then that’s it. I’ve met a lot of people … I’m part of the Television Academy Performers Peer Group so that’s the Primetime Emmy awards. There’s a Performers Peer Group Executive Committee, and there’s a group of us that meet with the governors of our peer group and we all talk with our representatives of the TV Academy and there’s some really fun events that happen. So it’s great to kind of rub elbows with some other people that are working in different departments. There was a mixer a few weeks ago where I got to meet a costume designer and heard all about her experience. It’s pretty neat.
Roy Samuelson:
One of the mixers that I went to, there was a producer of an award winning documentary, and it’s an easy place to go up and say hi to people. Hey, what do you do? Oh, congratulations for your award. And they ask what I do and I was able to say I do audio description. It’s a form of narration for TV shows and movies. And all of a sudden, their eyes lit up and they got passionate and they said, “Oh, wow. I had no idea that this existed.” And there was a genuine interest in a way that is different than the usual schmoozy kind of thing. It wasn’t manufactured. They really wanted to hear about it and I gave out all my business cards that night because this kind of conversation started to happen. There’s another really talented narrator who’s been going out and securing her own work and kind of pitching it on her own.
Roy Samuelson:
And she’s got her whole team setup and I’m kind of following her lead on that. And I started producing audio description as well as closed captioning for some short films. I don’t know where this is going, but I like the idea of working with people that have a short film and they know people. People that I happen to have produced these short films for work in the industry. One is an editor on more than a handful of recognizable TV shows. Another has worked on a ton of stuff for a major studio. And these people know other people. And by being able to say, “Hey, can I offer you audio description and closed captioning for your film?” And they’re like, “What?” And I tell them what it is and they’re like, “Sure.” And then I can share with them here’s how it works. Here’s what the process is. So, this is a whole new direction that I’m really enjoying. It’s exciting and it’s new and I’m stumbling through it.
Roy Samuelson:
This is probably going to be in the next month or so, I’ll be able to share a short film that has audio description and I’m kind of curious where the best venue for it is. Is it YouTube? Is it its own website with a video link? I mean … But regardless of all that, it’s kind of the new … for me it’s a new direction. And what do you both think about that?
Jeff Thompson:
Well, I think it’s great. Getting awareness out there. I mean when their eyes light up and that genuine interest sparks, you can feel that. They kind of like re-stand and dig in. I mean you got rid of all your business cards, so it had to been a good feeling. And I connected up with Steve Letness, he’s from Saint Paul here. He does musical scores, and he talks about how he goes out to California, that’s where you are. That rubbing elbows and stuff, he enlightened me to the word awareness. Creating awareness and that goes a long ways and I like to … I’m glad to hear you’re doing that.
Serina Gilbert:
I agree. You’re getting to the point where you’re starting to work with people who are the decision maker and things like that and when they’re going through their production and deciding what the priorities are, they’re going to speak up and be like, “Oh yeah. We need to get the audio description track as well.” And that could be a big piece of getting more audio description on our primetime television above and beyond what the minimum the FCC has provided and are asking for. Because if some networks are just … it’s their culture that with all of our shows we also provide audio description tracks, then the FCC might not have to worry about it as much anymore, because it’s just being done.
Roy Samuelson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And what I’m hearing is instead of mandating it, it’s opted into because they see the value. They see the market share. Even your example with the Subaru there, Jeff. It’s nice to hear.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. George Wurtzel. Yeah.
Roy Samuelson:
And what you’re saying, it sounds like I don’t want to come … I want to be really clear here that the message here is look at me and what I’m doing. The message is, look at what we can do. I’m not alone in this. There’s other people that are doing this and I love the idea of when we get 100% compliance of all TV shows and movies having audio description and it’s going to happen. So let’s give it a little nudge.
Serina Gilbert:
Exactly. I mean, there’s been quite a few like live plays, seems to be the new theme to put on TV around the holidays and I know a few of the times they have had live audio description. They’re some quality things we need to work on still but the fact that they are putting that effort forth for a live program I think is a pretty big deal, because that’s not easy to do.
Roy Samuelson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s cool. And that it goes along with the live production, right? It’s like it’s all live. I love that. One of the things that really excites me about audio description as far as the narrators goes, and obviously I’m a narrator so it’s a very selfish position is that by talking about the narration, it gives you as an audience member a name. So, that name happens to be Roy Samuelson. There’s also maybe hundreds of other names that I think are important. And by learning who we are, we’re able to kind of help distinguish the different kinds of narration that we do. Let me be clear on this, in the same way that let’s say there’s a book that I read that I want to hear on audiobook, and I start the audiobook and I’m like, “Oh, I can’t listen to this narrator for four or six hours. I can’t commit to that. This is just not my person.”
Roy Samuelson:
It’s not that they’re a bad read, it’s just not my style, and in the opposite way there could be an audiobook narrator that I just love to listen to no matter what they read. She’s just knocking it out of the park and everything. Oh I just noticed, here’s this audience, she’s reading this book I have never heard of. I’d love to hear that book. And I like the example of audiobook narrators when it comes to the audio description narrators. I think there might be some similarities there, if you happen to like one audio description narrator and you want to find out what she’s doing. Like what other project is she working on? And so you can kind of follow along. Or you might be like, “You know what? Roy’s got this deep sound and it just grates on my nerves. Is there somebody else that doesn’t sound so like Roy that I could listen to?”
Roy Samuelson:
And it’s like I’ll put up with him if I have to because it’s a show, but that kind of distinction I think can only help with the work of audio description, the work being distinguishing between just it has it, or it doesn’t have it to something a little more nuanced, and that can get into all sorts of other details.
Serina Gilbert:
It’s almost analogous. There’s my SAT word of the day.
Roy Samuelson:
I love it.
Serina Gilbert:
It’s almost like you’re listening to your Pandora and you’re like, “Oh my gosh. Who sings this song?” And then you go and look up all the other songs by that person and then you get into this rabbit hole of new artists and new discoveries and before you know it, you’re hooked on a whole nother artist. I can see that happening when you start following different narrators where it’s like, oh my gosh, I never even knew that this show existed, let alone that had an audio description track with it. And it’s with my favorite person. Course I’m going to give it a shot. So it only broadens the availability of the services to everyone and the exposure for that particular show.
Roy Samuelson:
That’s a great point. I love that Pandora example. You’re right. The rabbit hole. And that brings more content and I got to tell you, the emphasis that I’m doing my best is a win-win for everybody, and that’s a win for me, because I love talking about this and I love doing it. I want to do more of it. It’s a win for the audience. Blind and low-vision. It’s even a win for the husbands who cook. The people who don’t want to look at a screen who happen to be sighted. It’s a win for the vendors that provide audio description because they’re getting more work and it’s obviously a win for the production companies because they’re getting people responding and getting people engaged to check mark on accessibility. This is something that is serving a community and there might be a market share there.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh yeah. When you’re talking about if I’m following an author and I love the person reading the book, well then I really dig in. I would follow that person. But when you’re talking about your narration, you’re working with a team as well. The voice is really good but the content has to be there. Like you mentioned that one person has a team, a whole team going around. That’s kind of neat. There’s so much hidden secrecy behind this stuff because we hear the voice, and you’re the front page of it but we don’t know everything that goes on behind the scenes that make it all work. There’s a lot of people doing this work to get it to our ears.
Roy Samuelson:
Yes. Yes. And top of head I’m thinking on a movie minimum a dozen. Just an audio description. And like you had said earlier, that what a great interview with that describer and I’m distinguishing a describer being the writer of the audio description. It’s so confusing. It took me a while to figure this out, but I’m the narrator of audio description and I’m describing stuff but I’m not a describer. I’m the narrator. So the describers, the writers, that is such a skill and it’s so nuanced and it has to be so specific in a way that kind of does the same thing because if I’m reading poorly written audio description, I don’t, I’m pretty lucky. The places that I work, they do really good work. That affects everything.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah even prior, we were talking about there’s the edit. There’s the mix. The levels. Like how loud is it, or how soft is it or if there’s a big explosion. Is the voice of audio description muffled? Does it sound muffled? I mean, the whole team is so important and I really want to be especially excited about as much as I love what I do, I want to bring up the whole team.
Roy Samuelson:
And this is not the Roy Samuelson show. It is the audio description team show and I hope that’s coming through. But thank you for bringing that up, Jeff. That’s so cool.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, it’s neat. Well, when you said the rabbit hole, it’s like I collect record albums and I used to read like The Rolling Stones, who’s the other musicians that were on that album. So I’d be … pretty soon, I’m three bins down flipping through records to find that. And just like audio description, when I see an author and I’m listening to a book, it’s nice that you have that friendly reader coming back because then you just nestle in and you drift away with it and just like the shows that we listen to, especially the series that we have today. Not 20 years ago, but today people binge watch this stuff. They have the ability to do it, and when you have that AD clicked, it’s like returning home.
Jeff Thompson:
You’re there. You’re already there. You’re opening up the book or the TV screen, whatever, your ears, and it’s just great. It’s just a good feeling.
Roy Samuelson:
Ah. And I guess that goes to compliment the production because they’re pretty good about having … obviously if a narrator isn’t available, but they’re pretty good about being consistent with the same narrator for series. Is that a good assumption?
Serina Gilbert:
For the most part. Every once in a while, season to season they might switch over.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah.
Serina Gilbert:
There was one in particular that bothered me where it switched. It was super irritating and I won’t name the show. But, the one episode would be a female. The next would be a male. And I’m like …
Roy Samuelson:
Oh wow. Yeah.
Serina Gilbert:
Yeah. But random thought because I would just like the record to reflect though that my analogy was Pandora, like 21st century. Jeff’s analogy was 45s being in the record store.
Jeff Thompson:
No, no, no. The records are coming back. We’re talking 12 inch , 7 inch LPs, vinyl [crosstalk].
Serina Gilbert:
Eight tracks.
Jeff Thompson:
I just bought a 40 year old Kenwood turntable and it’s beautiful.
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, wow.
Jeff Thompson:
It’s just … the guy got it straight from Japan. But yeah.
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, it’s back.
Jeff Thompson:
But it’s audio and that’s why I like the voices. When I turn … like Bosch. They don’t change the opening music. That music tells you, or the opening for Cheers. There I dated myself. Or Friends. Anything. It just … you’re settling in. The show’s starting and when you hear that narrator, it’s usually the first voice you hear and it just settles you in and if you’ve heard it before last season, and all of a sudden it starts up, oh here we go.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow.
Jeff Thompson:
It is the first voice we hear, isn’t it, Serina?
Serina Gilbert:
Typically. Because normally it’s setting the scene.
Jeff Thompson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Serina Gilbert:
The only time it’s usually not the very first one you hear is maybe a sitcom. But even in a sitcom, sometimes they’re like at the coffee shop. It could be three, four words, but it’s still setting that scene and especially like with the way that TV works now, everything goes on some sort of service to be benched. Whether it’s the exclusive service for that particular television network or Netflix or Hulu or Amazon or whatever the case may be, and then when you’re binging them down the road or years later, you’re re-watching them and every other episode is a different narrator, you’re like, “Well this is confusing.” It throws you off and then you’re not focused on what’s going on with the show.
Jeff Thompson:
We would be the only ones that know that. Right? I mean the vision impaired, I mean …
Serina Gilbert:
Yes.
Jeff Thompson:
Some people don’t see the ramps. Back to that. How’s that for bringing it back around?
Roy Samuelson:
Like a turntable. Okay.
Jeff Thompson:
Good one. We notice the ramps. We notice it all the time and that stuff sticks out to us, so the importance of this microcosm, this little spot here to us, it’s almost everything once we’re locked in on it. We don’t notice the, oh wow, they’re wearing a different hat this season or something. We don’t notice that as much. Like in Cheers, when the bartender passed away and then in came Woody. That was huge. I could see back then. Well, when they switch a narrator and you don’t get any notice of it, it’s like all of a sudden you’re missing the first three minutes going, “I don’t know if I like this guy. I don’t know if I like this gal.” This voice … listen to her voice. And you miss three minutes.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow.
Jeff Thompson:
You’re not in the same groove on the record there, Serina.
Serina Gilbert:
Nice. I like it. One thing that I have noticed speaking of old school themes is there’s an increased trend lately and I don’t know if the studios are like finding audio description tracks for older movies or if they’re recreating them, but I have noticed because iTunes right now, by far, has the most digital availability. Probably that and Amazon Prime. They’re both massive libraries right now of audio described content. And a lot of them, they’ll put on there and they’re classic movies or older movies from like the 80s, early 90s that I’m sure were described somewhere at some point. So do you know, Roy, maybe are they recreating these audio tracks? Or are they like discovering them in a vault somewhere and making them available for the streaming services?
Roy Samuelson:
I’m going to be speculating. This is just a guess. I know that some have been recreated. There are movies that might have done well that are being rerecorded now. It’s possible that they still had the original audio description track and it comes along with. But I do know that there are some companies that are doing, I’m not sure if legacy is the right word for it, non-first run films or maybe even TV shows. I don’t know about that. But yeah. Those are common.
Serina Gilbert:
And I have another random-
Roy Samuelson:
This is great.
Serina Gilbert:
… question that might stump you. So, and this Jeff, you can totally edit it out because it might not be … it’s me being curious. So, and I don’t think you described this one. So I watched Into the Spider-Verse with my son and-
Roy Samuelson:
I didn’t do it.
Serina Gilbert:
You did?
Roy Samuelson:
I did not.
Serina Gilbert:
Oh, I was like what. Well I guess it’s interesting and you might not probably answer this. When we watched it on the Blu-ray it was one description track. When we streamed it on iTunes which came from the digital copy from buying the Blu-ray, there’s a different description track. I didn’t like one of them. I was like this one’s distracting.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow. That is really-
Serina Gilbert:
I don’t why they would have two separate tracks. It was interesting.
Roy Samuelson:
Two separate tracks meaning two separate, two different narrators?
Serina Gilbert:
Two completely different voices.
Roy Samuelson:
Wow.
Serina Gilbert:
So if you’re ever feeling bored, go buy Into the Spider-Verse and listen to the one on the Blu-ray and then listen to the one in iTunes and …
Jeff Thompson:
Maybe different licensing.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah that could be because a lot of audio description … like conceptually, audio description should be passed through. So in other words, let’s talk about a movie. It starts at first run movie theater, and then it goes to whatever streaming service or DVD or wherever. It travels. And it’s funny because it seems like the audio travels, like the original audio, and the video travels and maybe 5.1 surround sound travels, but audio description sometimes gets lost in the [inaudible]. I’m speculating. This is not a judgment. It’s just a guess. That this is a relatively new technology, and there aren’t standards that have been officially adopted by every studio to do it the exact same way, so things are going to fall through the cracks. I don’t know about that specific title having two audio description narrators, but I’m not sure what to say about that. It surprises me.
Serina Gilbert:
Yeah. I’ll triple check it. And who knows, because iTunes is constantly updating their audio description tracks as well, because there’s been movies where we’ve had them digitally and on Blu-ray and at first, the audio description track is not passed through to the digital version, and then maybe a month later, all of a sudden it’s there. So it’s really interesting. I don’t know if maybe behind the scenes, because Apple is super big on inclusivity and accessibility. Maybe they have a department that negotiates those and maybe takes longer sometimes. I don’t know.
Roy Samuelson:
And with audio description, this whole pass through idea, most of the audio description work might be set in the world of localization. And localization meaning different language dubbing. English as a second language. Those sorts of things. Which is very regional and very licensed. And I’m just making up words here. I don’t know if that’s something that maybe the FCC could have part of their requirement that it needs to pass through. That it needs to carry through and to have some … I don’t know how you legislate that.
Jeff Thompson:
If Apple is putting out audio description and Amazon Prime having it available, are they the ones creating or contracting to have it made to put out these films even though some movie company put the movie out?
Roy Samuelson:
That’s a great question and I don’t know the answer to it. I’ve experienced different scenarios on both. That’s a great question though. But like you said, with Apple and some of these other streaming services, they do seem to be kind of taking the lead. I don’t know about … I’m making … is it an acquisition? Is it distribution? Is it licensing? Or is it the post-production sound company? There’s a film coming out later this year, and boy do I want to do it and I know the producer of it. And it’s got a big star in it. And I e-mailed him. I said, “I want to do audio description for you.” And I’d say it was early afternoon. So by later afternoon, a few hours later, he had forwarded to me that not only was his film being audio described, but he knew which company was doing the audio description, and he’s like, “I had no idea.” And so that was like a little light bulb moment for him where it was like, oh, oh this is already in place. And he didn’t know. And he’s in charge of the whole film.
Roy Samuelson:
And that’s not a judgment on him. It’s just, this goes back I think to the education that the more we, whoever we is, speak out and speak up, this becomes more not mainstream. What am I saying? Accessible. Inclusive in a way that’s more … it’s a part of. It becomes that wheelchair ramp of the building.
Serina Gilbert:
So for the average I guess consumer of audio description, what are some suggestions that you have for if maybe somebody’s experiencing some difficulties with their audio descriptions that they’re receiving or maybe has suggestions. What are the best ways that they can advocate for their needs?
Roy Samuelson:
Oh. What a great question. I think that describer, Jeff, that you interviewed on text, they had such a great point about making audio description, how to reach out and it really is important. And I think even you had experience, Serina, where you reached out to someone and you got a result. The voices of the community that are using this audio description are being heard and there are so many other things that we can focus on. It shouldn’t be this way. And it does make a difference. So when there is a problem, whether it’s at a theater or a cable channel, or a streaming service or a streaming app, there needs to be a way to contact whoever, and it could be any of them. It’s kind of sometimes hard to figure it out because is it coming from the app? Or is it coming from the actual show that’s on the app? But whoever needs to know, needs to know.
Roy Samuelson:
And I think there is talk of, I know they do have some information about not only how to access it, but is there a place, like an information center? Like here’s who you call for each of the different networks? Regardless whether it’s an e-mail address or a phone number or even the FCC. That this information is out there. I’d love to find one place for it. But please take that minute or two just to reach out and say, “I love this audio description. Please have this show audio described. I’d love to have this show audio described.” I think it makes a difference.
Jeff Thompson:
I think it’s really important that people also take the time out to compliment when you do enjoy something, like you said, “I love this.” It’s so easy to complain about something but when you do enjoy something, snap out of that joy for a second and just type out a couple of words and say, “Hey, this was really good.”
Serina Gilbert:
Well I’m going to take my moment and like call out Oprah because I love so many programs on her network, and they’re not described on there. So, so if you’re listening, Oprah, we love audio description. Put it out there for us.
Roy Samuelson:
Very cool. Good to know. Good to know.
Jeff Thompson:
A movie just dropped. Pretty big movie, Roy. You want to talk about that?
Roy Samuelson:
I am so excited. Yes. Spider-Man: Far From Home. It’s July 4th weekend release on July 2nd and I was on the audio description for the Spider-Man: Homecoming maybe a few years ago and I’m just thrilled that the franchise is continuing with this one. And it’s a pretty big movie.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh yeah. Spidey. Everyone loves Spidey.
Serina Gilbert:
I love Spider-Man: Homecoming. I did not know you did the audio description track. But I guess I’m not supposed to if you’re doing a good job. I just love the Spider-Man series where he’s a little bit younger. I like the teenager Spider-Man better than adult Spider-Man, I guess.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah, yeah. It’s good. Different kind of flavor to it. And just to be clear, talk about me as much as you want before and after. I just don’t want to get into the way of the movie. Like during the movie. So, yeah. If you like my work, shout it from the mountain tops if you feel like it. And shout to everybody. If you hear a narrator that you love, please call up the network and say how great she is. She’s an amazing narrator. Please bring her on for more of her shows. I want her on this show. And they hear. I really believe that they hear this. Or they read it if it’s an e-mail.
Roy Samuelson:
So yeah. The Spider-Man adventure, I do love the action and sometimes I do [inaudible] or two. Those action packed movies, from my experience, it’s non-stop. It’s just page after page and making sure I meet the cues and make the timing correct and still be a part of the story. It’s an adventure for me to do this work. And the Spider-Man Far From Home, you can imagine it’s not just a bunch of people talking. There’s a lot of stuff going on.
Serina Gilbert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Thompson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Serina Gilbert:
Do you ever go back and listen to the movie with your audio description track with your own voice? Does it throw you off?
Roy Samuelson:
It does. And I need to listen to it because it helps me make better choices. That kind of criticism, both positive and negative. I can say, “Oh, I really liked how that came out.” Or, “Oh, I remember I had intentions of doing that line one way but it didn’t come out that way and it came out really sudsy, or it came out in a way that just wasn’t, I don’t like.” So it’s really helpful but I’m also at a point where it’s hard to listen because I can be so judgemental about my own work that it’s important for me to listen to it and I do samples. I share samples with friends and family and other people that doesn’t even know about it. So most of my experience in listening back, it’s hard for me to listen back to a whole show or a whole movie but I do take the time to get more than just a snippet, but enough to get a sense of, oh yeah, that really worked, or next time I know what to do better.
Jeff Thompson:
I like to listen to your inner monologue if you’re sitting in Times Square at a coffee shop just watching people go by. What kind of description you would start doing.
Roy Samuelson:
Yeah. Like I said, I don’t write the description and boy, there’s a lot of talented people there. But I do think about things differently just because of the words that I’m reading from them.
Jeff Thompson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, it’s great because when we’re complimenting you doing Spider-Man or any other narrator doing a thing, we’re complimenting a team of 10, 12 from that production. So people, get your voices out there, let it be heard. If you like something you’re listening to for audio description, let them know. Serina is there anything else you want to say?
Serina Gilbert:
No. I was actually going to do the Roy, where can our listeners find you? So …
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, we’re all in sync here.
Serina Gilbert:
Unless there’s something else that you would like to make sure is shared, Roy.
Roy Samuelson:
You really nailed it with the making sure you reach out for positive. What a great perspective to keep it positive and that kind of specific feedback is so important.
Jeff Thompson:
Roy, you’re very active on Twitter and it’s great to hear your voice. You’re retweeting some stuff out there. But you’re sending a message to us all that hey, [inaudible] bringing up audio description. We just have to rustle this up and shake it out there and hopefully people will listen to it but it’s neat to see some people from the industry out there battling this battle with us. So, it’s great to see and if you want to share your Twitter account?
Roy Samuelson:
Sure, yeah. Thanks. And with that, what a great collaboration. I really do see that everyone is benefiting. Every single aspect of audio description from the production companies to the audiences to the narrators to the describers to the editors. The whole team, everyone can be lifted up by sharing the good stuff that you love and obviously if something’s not working for you, say something. On Twitter, I am @RoySamuelson. All one word. On Facebook it’s Roy Samuelson Biz. B-I-Z. And I’ve got a website, roysamuelson.com. And there is an audio description page that it has a few samples as well as some work I’ve done and I think the news page has a bunch of interviews.
Jeff Thompson:
As Serina listens intensely, wondering what she’s going to say.
Serina Gilbert:
Very nice. But I am super excited that I was able to be a part of this interview and we super duper … I know it’s like a five year old. We really appreciate what you do and the passion that you have for the field that you’re in and I can’t wait to check back in with you, even six months or a year from now to see all of the great strides that you made.
Roy Samuelson:
Well, thanks so much for saying so and I’m truly honored to be a part of this. It’s like … I’m not sure if I said this before or during, but it’s so great to hear from you and to know that there is interest in it. It just gets me more passionate.
Jeff Thompson:
And Roy, you sent out a message to me asking what I like about audio description and I sent it to Serina, but you said put it out on the podcast too. Like if people could tell a little bit about what they really like about audio description and what it does for them.
Roy Samuelson:
Sure. Yeah. If anyone would like to contact me, my contact info is on the website. I’d love to know what your experience is with audio description and why it makes a difference with your viewing of TV shows and movies. What do you like about it? What’s an experience that you’ve had that you might not have had, had it not been there? I’d love to hear any stories. I’d like to be able to, with your permission of course, share those stories and I’d ask ahead of time. But just from my own work and to share with whoever you’d be comfortable sharing with. Please visit my website, and message me or e-mail me on Twitter and share a little story about why audio description has made a difference, if it wasn’t there, if it was there, whatever.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. Well thank you, Roy. It’s always great having you on. You’ve been on all three shows now. I don’t know what this show is called though. Serina?
Serina Gilbert:
Super Special Blind Abilities Extra. I don’t know.
Jeff Thompson:
There you go. The Super Duper Show.
Serina Gilbert:
Yeah.
Roy Samuelson:
Super Duper Show.
Serina Gilbert:
Seems to be the theme.
Jeff Thompson:
All right. Well you guys, this has been great talking about audio description. I love to see the growth that it’s had over the last couple years and it’s grown even more and I’m glad you’re busy, Roy, because that means we’re going to get more audio description.
Serina Gilbert:
Yay!
Roy Samuelson:
Yay! Oh thanks everybody. What a pleasure to speak with you both. Thank you.
Jeff Thompson:
Thanks, Serina.
Serina Gilbert:
Thanks, Jeff. Do you want to do your Blind Abilities voice?
Jeff Thompson:
This has been a Blind Abilities Production. No I won’t.
Serina Gilbert:
He can’t help it.
Jeff Thompson:
It’s always a great time to have Roy Samuelson on the show. Check out his website, roysamuelson.com. Check him out on Twitter. @RoySamuelson. Serina, it’s always great to have her on the show as well. And a big shout out to Jeff Thompson, Thompson, Thompson, for his beautiful music. I want to thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff Thompson:
For more podcasts with the blindness perspective:
Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com
On Twitter @BlindAbilities
Download our app from the App store:
‘Blind Abilities’; that’s two words.
Or send us an e-mail at:
Thanks for listening.